Designing for Health: Interview with Bill Sherman

Intro:

Hello and welcome to Designing for Health. I’m Nordic’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Craig Joseph.

In this episode, I sit down with Bill Sherman, co-author of The Thought Leadership Handbook, to discuss a reality every healthcare leader has encountered: some ideas gain momentum and change organizations, while others never make it beyond a committee meeting. 

We discuss why evidence alone rarely changes behavior, how physician leaders can communicate ideas that actually gain traction, and why many promising innovations die before they spread.

Whether you’re leading a health system, managing a clinical department, or simply trying to improve care in your corner of the organization, this conversation offers practical advice on persuasion, influence, stakeholder engagement, and the often-overlooked skill of helping others see a better future. 

Let’s plug in.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Bill Sherman. Welcome to designing for health. How are you, sir?

Bill Sherman:

I’m doing well. Great to be here, Craig.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

This is an unusual interview for me because I know you. I’ve met you before. And in fact, you. You helped me write, our book. Designing for health. And so.

Bill Sherman:

Indeed.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

This is, like, kind of coming home. I’m pretty excited. I know you well. Others don’t know you as well. Tell what? Should tell us a little bit about yourself.

Bill Sherman:

Yeah. So I’m Bill Sherman, and I focus on the world of ideas, how they reach scale, how they create impact by training. Studied both English language and literature and drama. Stumbled into organizational development and transformation. And that led when I had a C- level exec at Yahoo back in the day, who wrote a business book, and I got pulled into the question of how do you take those ideas to scale beyond just Yahoo, right?

Bill Sherman:

And that world is called thought leadership, whether or not we want to have a conversation on what that is and what it isn’t, thought leadership is really the work of making sure that good ideas get voiced, that they get to the right people and create impact. And so I’ve been in that field for 20 years.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

And that is how I kind of encountered you. One of the exciting things that’s happened in your life recently is you have a book. I’m calling it now, if someone can see it’s called the Thought Leadership Handbook and it’s an okay book, I’m going to say it’s an okay book. Someone named Mel Robbins recommended it on the on the cover. But I think the most of the most noteworthy part of the book is that I mentioned in it.

Bill Sherman:

You are indeed.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Not as prominently as I could have been, but, I am I am mentioned in it, and I did want for all of our listeners to I wanted everyone to know we have a new policy. I will only be interviewing people on this podcast who mentioned me in their book, and so we might be putting out a lot fewer episodes in the future.

Bill Sherman:

And Craig, you were kind enough to not only let us tell some of your story and journey and thought leadership, but also you’ve said good words about the book and endorsed it. So I want to thank you for that.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Well, it’s worth the $5 that you paid to me. And I, appreciate that. So let’s, let’s kind of dig into some of this thought leadership stuff.

It might seem like a kind of an odd thing, designing for a house podcast where we’re talking about how to leverage design to make health care better. My understanding, I think a lot of our understanding of what thought leadership is, or at least my understanding, was that, hey, if I want to be, a bestselling author or professional speaker that I’m interested in and thought leadership, but I think it’s much more expansive.

And as you kind of hinted at a little earlier, it’s the idea of making good ideas, helping propagate good ideas and get them out there. And to me, that’s almost what physicians do often is try to get good ideas out to their patients and to populations of people.

Bill Sherman:

Well, and if you build on that, I would argue that the scientific method, peer review and discourse in its purest form is a way of trying to figure out which ideas are backed up by evidence, which ones are good ideas, and then how do we get these ideas out into the world where they create impact? So I would argue that the practice of medicine itself and the health care system is really about idea propagation, right?

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Yeah. I’m going to agree, having, you know, being a primary care pediatrician, much of what we do in primary care especially is, is communicating information and getting ideas out there to our patients, to the broader community. And oftentimes they’re not our ideas specifically, but they’re just based on science.

Bill Sherman:

Really a translator of ideas from hey, this is what I heard at a conference or from research that was done in my field, and translate it for a layperson. You could be a senior physician training younger physicians. You could also be someone in health care as an executive and or another part of the system saying, how do we make this work, right? Not only from the business of healthcare, but also for the higher purpose of health care?

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love it. So one of the things I think that you focus on in the book is that there’s a difference between having a good idea and creating impact. Right. And then so a lot of good ideas in health care seem to fail to gain traction. And I’m wondering if you want to kind of comment on that.

I’m sure you see that in your consulting practice where people have great ideas, but they’re not able to get them out there and, and make change. And so what are some of the things that one that we can do to, to, or how do you kind of advise some of your clients to get those ideas out?

Bill Sherman:

The first foundational piece that I would say is ideas can’t speak for themselves, and I’ve seen plenty of times research academics who have been clients who have a good idea in their field or whatever it is. It is, as an academic paper, only deeply understood by maybe a handful of people. The peer reviewers who went through it challenged it to ask questions.

It has a limited readership, and the journal doesn’t have a life on its own right. Similar a someone from practice may raise their hand and say, you know, I’ve got this insight, but not now know how to navigate the internal organizational structure, let alone communicated to others. So if ideas can’t speak for themselves, good ideas don’t necessarily travel and win because they’re good ideas, then the question is, how do we become better at sharing what we know with our target audience?

Bill Sherman:

And that’s why I argue that thought leadership is a discipline and a practice. How do you become good at communicating ideas? And then also how do you make that part of your everyday work with the people that you’re trying to reach? And I can go into some tips in that, but I think that first change is a mindset that just because something is right or something has been proven, doesn’t mean everyone will understand it or embrace it.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

And we don’t have to look very far into the headlines today to see that there are things that we know are true and in science and are being questioned every day. And so the fact that you have evidence and proof over decades doesn’t necessarily mean that people will accept that. And learning how to come and communicate and come at it from from different perspectives, I think is super helpful.

Bill Sherman:

Yeah. And how do you capture attention in a busy, noisy world? You may be a physician that has a few minutes in an encounter with the patient. Right. And how do you convey something like, as you said, doing primary pediatric care or whatever form of care you have, that patients attention to various degrees for a short period of time?

What information do you communicate? How do you present it and why? The way that I think about thought leadership is because it is a set of skills. You’ve got to be clear, especially if you’re communicating an idea that is yours or that is one that is based on your experience or expertise. What is your core idea? Is it provocative?

Well, yet somebody is attention and make them lean in and say, tell me more. Is it generous? Does it give value to the person beyond? That’s wrong. The difference between saying you should quit smoking and here’s the benefit of it right then. Is it distinctive? Thought leadership isn’t simply the repetition of others ideas, it’s adding to the conversation, opening a new angle or perspective, or starting a conversation that a community, a group, or even a field or industry needs to have.

But nobody’s talking about. So how do you open the conversation and get people to lean in, listen and say, yeah, tell me more. That’s one of the four elements of thought leadership.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

So let’s talk about those four elements you just outlined. One of them, can you kind of go through them quickly. So we have them as a as a basis.

Bill Sherman:

Yeah. So the first is your core idea. And I went through the basics on that provocative, generous, distinctive and short 20 words or less. The next piece is Content Library. And in a content library. I’m not talking about journal articles. I’m not talking about case studies. What I’m looking for are the reusable assets that you can use to persuade someone.

And if you’re talking to different audiences, you might need different forms of proof. You might need a framework. You might need a case study. You might need an example, a story, a quote, first person experience, third person or third party data as well. Right? So how I might persuade a CFO would be different than if I was talking to a resident, or if I was talking to a patient right.

I have a library of story data and examples that I can use to support my core idea. And I most people have practice thought leadership don’t need hundreds of core ideas. If you look at the people who practice it, typically 3 to 5, and they’ve got really good support for that, then the question becomes, okay, you’ve got a core idea and you’ve got some supporting evidence and stories and examples.

Are you going to package it for your audience? How do you deliver it to them? Amazon delivers packages in boxes. Think of your market offerings very much like the Amazon box. You’ve got to deliver the idea and the proof to your audience. A journal article is one way grand rounds or another way that you can deliver ideas, a pull aside conversation outside of a patient room could be another idea, a way to communicate an idea.

Sometimes ideas such as consulting come with a price tag. It’s a project. It has a fee. There’s work involved. Other times it’s something that you don’t charge for. You post on LinkedIn, I post on LinkedIn. We share ideas there, but there’s no toll booths on our LinkedIn posts. And more importantly, if someone repeats the idea that we shared there, we’re happy rather than disappointed.

Bill Sherman:

So you have to be willing to look and go which ideas are free? Which have a price tag, and create the right offerings to reach your target audience, whoever they would be. And then the final piece is, especially if you’re advocating for a big idea over a period of time, what’s the platform identity? And here I’m going to go into brand.

A lot of companies work on building a brand. The organization, whether they are in health care, and they put up billboards or they advertise on television, etc. they want to be known in a certain way to the community. Organizations, Pepsi, Coke, all have brands positioned differently. Personal brands, how you want to be known. Are you timely? Are you responsible?

Are you creative? Are you a hard worker? Those are all characteristics that are inherent to you. Okay, when thought leadership happens, the idea is especially if it’s a new one or a provocative one, you need to develop a brand for which we call platform identity. If the ideas don’t have a brand they’re going to attach to an existing brand.

It might attach to the company that’s advocating for it, or it might attach to the person who’s advocating for the idea. And that’s okay. But it’s sort of like a toddler that is learning to walk. They take three steps, giggle, and then come running back and sort of latch on to your leg and sort of stay there. If you want ideas to travel and spread without you in the room, they need a brand.

They need a platform identity so that others can explain what the ideas about, what it solves, who it’s for, and why we should do it. That is how I looked at thought leadership. And the clearer you are on core ideas, the content library you have, the offerings, how you’re getting it out into the world, and how you want other people to talk about the idea. The easier it becomes for the idea to spread and create impact.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love it, and so you’ve you know that creation of impact is is what we want. Another part of the of the book that you co-wrote, you’re the lead author. So I’ll give you 85% of the credit I think is the impact the impact equation. So tell us a little bit about that. How how are you measuring impact of an idea that either I can imagine a clinician or a health care system wants to get out there.

Bill Sherman:

So there are some that you measure directionally and some that you measure quantitatively. Right. So revenue, profitability are things that you can tie to and say, hey, this is something that’s easy to measure. We know how to measure it. Impact could be also going back to a behavior change as well. You and I have talked previously about the idea of putting a stool close to the patient.

Right. Yeah. And changing not only the interaction and patient satisfaction scores on that, but the dynamic, the nonverbal and communication style between patient and physician. Okay. Some of that’s easy to quantify. What are the medical complaints on a large basis. Others are harder and require someone to make subjective evaluation. So impact depends on you how you define it okay.

And there can be many different definitions. But we’ve created an impact lesion that directionally or quantitatively if you want, allows you to measure what is the idea doing. And it’s multiplicative. So impact on the left equals simplicity of the idea. Because if your idea requires paragraphs, chapters or a full book to explain, guess what? Nobody is going to be passing this ideal law.

So that’s a multiply by zero problem. So impact equals simplicity times relevance times velocity times share of audience relevance. Can someone scanning articles that are either online LinkedIn things that are in their inbox, did they click it and see more right? Do they lean in and listen to the idea? If it’s not relevant to them, they’re going to scroll by.

We do this every day on our phones, and that’s one of the primary ways we could be exposed to new ideas and to better ideas. Velocity. How fast do the ideas travel? And are you the one who’s having to get that idea to travel or others helping you, other people systems, do other people put in energy to make the ideas travel?

Often you have to prime the pump with your own effort, but the success comes when you get other people lending their voice, their time, energy and resources to helping the idea propagate. And the final piece of sure of target audience. I’ve heard a lot of people tell me, well, this idea is good for anyone. And I look at them and I go, so you mean 8.5 billion people eat?

And I don’t know personally how to be relevant to 8.5 billion people. That’s hard. That’s a lot of translation into languages. I don’t know, cultures I don’t understand haven’t lived yet. If you narrow that number down and you say, I’ve got an idea that works for leaders, okay, there’s a lot of leaders, even in the US. Well, what about physician leaders?

Well, if we go down to chief medical officers, we can get a good count of how many of those are in the United States. We’re a little bit over 10,000, right? In the US. That’s a manageable number to start trying to be relevant to. And then you ask yourself, okay, what percentage of the audience is listening to what I’m saying as an idea?

Is it 1%, one tenth of a percent, 100th of a percent? And what would it take to climb that ladder to the next order of magnitude? Those are the directional questions you start asking, because when they multiply, you create a bigger impact. You take yourself out of the process, you reach through relevance and you track your share of audience.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love it, all right. We’re building the basis here. And you’ve already kind of referenced how this can be applicable to someone in health care or design. Let’s talk about some of the avatars that you’ve kind of created. And I want to pretty quickly focus in on the in-house expert. So I’ve given away one of the avatars. But why don’t you tell us what the others the others are? And then let’s focus in on in-house expert.

Bill Sherman:

So a lot of people saw how they practiced thought leadership by what they do. Oh, I’m a speaker. I’m a researcher, I’m an author. Right. They sort by the modality they use. We argue there’s a better way. And it’s why you practice thought leadership is far more important than how you could be a YouTuber. You could post on LinkedIn, you could be a thought leadership expert working inside a pharmaceutical company.

There’s a number of different ways to get ideas out into the world. So why? First pattern we saw growth minded CEOs, executives who are practicing thought leadership because they want to either increase the visibility of their organization, access rooms their salespeople cannot access or drive the conversation with senior executive peers in the industry. The second one, and it’s really an offshoot in some ways of the growth minded CEO is the impact and legacy executive.

They have led that they’ve had positional authority. They may be near retirement, they may be post retirement. And they say, you know what? I learned a lot from experience or from my mentors. I don’t want to ride off into the sunset on a golf cart. Instead, I want to be relevant to boards or for the conversation in the industry, or I’m going to pay it back.

Maybe they write a book, maybe they speak, maybe they serve on boards, but they continue to share what they know. The third is the thought leader on the run. They have to be in the room or in the zoom to share their expertise. Often they command value. These are the speakers you see on stage, whether the keynote speaker or the expert who’s brought in, and they accumulate a lot of miles over the years.

The fourth is the one you alluded to, the in-house expert, and you’re in that chapter as an exemplar of that role. This is when an organization says we need someone to advocate for these ideas through their own voice, not just corporate marketing, product communications or service offerings. Right. How do you drive a larger conversation with customers, clients, vendors, and industry ecosystem regulators?

And an in-house expert has to balance, because often you may be receiving guidance from what marketing wants you to say, what legal wants you to say, and you also have an audience that is saying, no, no, no. What do you think? Really? Tell us what’s on your mind. So there’s a constant superposition. Yeah. If we were to use a quantum mechanics term where you’re living in two worlds at the same time, the world of your organic home organization and the world of your field and your voice has to stay authentic in that. But that’s how you build an audience.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Yeah. I’m sure. Yeah. Go on. I’m sorry. I’ll let you finish.

Bill Sherman:

Go ahead and. Well, the fifth is the Hall of Fame expert. They are someone who has practiced thought leadership for a period of time. They’ve created momentum for their ideas, and they’re concerned about legacy and the ideas persisting even when they are not carrying them. So for some people, that may be, hey, I’ve got a career change or work has me focus on a different topic.

But these are good ideas and they need to be propagated. Others may be saying, hey, I’ve spent a career advocating for this one idea. We’ve made impact, but just because I retired doesn’t mean the idea stops being discussed. Or there are people. And in the book you’ll hear or see a story of someone who had spent his and he was a physician.

He was a psychiatrist by training, who worked with couples who had broken up and divorced and gotten back together, remarried, and then needed counseling again. However, he also trained FBI hostage negotiators as well as then worked with executives on their listening skills. His body of thought leadership was around listening. He got diagnosed, so Mark Olson got diagnosed with leukemia.

Now a lot of people would sort of step back from the work that they were doing and say, this is a time to be with family, friends and those that are important with me. Mark elevated the conversation, said, I believe in listening so much. I’m going to launch a new YouTube series titled What I’m Dying to Tell You. Okay? And he continued to talk about listening skills to strangers he would never meet. Almost to his last week on earth. So there was a spark there to share ideas.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Yeah. So I suspect again that a lot of the other listeners, physicians, nurses, health care executives can identify themselves as one of those kind of avatars. And I think the in-house expert was, was the one that I saw as a lot of like a lot of people who are chief medical officers or CMS. Was that kind of a role?

Chief nursing officer. And they’re often caught between. It’s just as you kind of referenced through the avatar, like, hey, like I’ve got this idea and I want to get that out there, but I also work for this big company and right, they might not love all aspects of this idea. There might be parts that they like and parts they don’t like, and there might be someone from legal who wants me to kind of tone down this part.

And, and so you there’s a is what kind of advice through your experience is there for folks like that who are kind of caught between different aspects of kind of getting I want to get that idea out there. And to your point, a lot of ideas, they’re great ideas, but they die because they don’t get propagated because they’re not.

Yeah, easily communicated. They’re not a little bit I don’t want to say the word controversial, but there there’s not a umph there behind them.

Bill Sherman:

Provocative. That’s what a thought leadership idea has to be, right. It cannot be more of the same. Sometimes it’s conceptually easy moving the stool over a couple feet, right? Sometimes it’s far more disruptive, even from a financial perspective, a process perspective that you have to persuade a lot of people. And so a couple piece of advice. One, if you can have data, have third party support, be able to build your content library of persuasive material because you’ll need to persuade different stakeholders either within or beyond the organization.

And so you have to listen and say, how do I create relevance and look at the world through their eyes and show them why this idea is valuable to them? The second thing is you have to be comfortable in advocating for ideas that may take a while for the world to embrace and accept. And I’ll use you, for example, designing for health, right?

This is not a project that ends. This is a vision of how do we make health care incrementally better step by step, recognizing there are a lot of parts and pieces that take to did that require all to work a semi efficiently, to even create modern medicine, to talk about two days work, let alone a future? You need help.

And so that that whole concept of personal velocity versus system velocity, which we talked about in the impact equation, you can exhaust yourself advocating for an idea. How do you recruit allies, ambassadors, people who lean into the idea and be an early adopter or people who help advocate and take it places that you can’t reach? Those are the strategic questions because you’ve got limited time. How do you make the most impact based on the time? If you’re a CNO, you’ve already got a day job.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Exactly right. It’s and so those are some ideas about how to do that. How do you are there any additional things that we should be contemplating if we, let’s say are no, are not the chief medical officer yet? We’re, we’re we want to get up there, but we’re not there yet. So, a young physician at a, at a, at a hospital system who’s got a great idea about making the O.R. run more efficiently or somehow, you know, treating more patients with fewer resources, with higher quality.

How do you how does someone who’s maybe early on in their career start to kind of gain steam when they don’t have direct access to decision makers and they don’t really understand potentially how the organization works?

Bill Sherman:

One of the ways that I describe thought leadership is creating impact through ideas, often without positional authority. Right. And so learning the skills of how do I understand the needs of my target audience and understanding what’s important to them, where might they push back, and how do I make this idea simple enough, going back to that simplicity piece, that it’s easier for them to say yes than no, right?

And so that crafting of and polishing of the idea is one piece. Second piece I would say is persistence. Just like other pieces of marketing. Just because you told an idea to someone once doesn’t mean they’re going to change their life. They need to hear it multiple times. Different support. The more they hear it from different perspectives and different people, the more they lean in.

Nobody wants to jump off the cliff on their own and be the first person to take a step. Finding your first people who will agree with you and supporting and helping them is the essential piece. Your first supporters are the hardest third piece I would say to a young physician or early career individual is the earlier you start practicing thought leadership, the longer you have for your reputational benefits.

As a thinker and someone with good ideas compounds, right? You can practice by advocating for other people’s ideas that you think are good. Either within your organization you can become someone else’s system velocity, or you can go out, do research and say, hey, I saw this. Did you see this article? And you can bring it into your organization, but you’re building those muscles to begin with before you start advocating for your own ideas, you can advocate for others ideas, and that’s a great on ramp.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Love it. All right. Let’s talk a little bit about the future. So we’ve kind of described lots of aspects of thought leadership. But people who have ideas and are trying to get them out, whether it’s to a large audience or to the patient in front of you, what are their skills or concepts or tools that that will need in the future, let’s say, ten, 20 years from now that that we don’t use now? I know I’m asking you to predict the future, but I feel like it’s a fair question and I will hold you to your answer.

Bill Sherman:

Okay. Sure. So thought leadership in many ways is the practice of seeing around the corner, looking into the future, figuring out what’s the signal, what’s the noise, and then reporting back to a certain audience and saying, here’s something I think we should be working on, right. Because this is where the future will require us to be. From a skills perspective, that means being aware of the conversations that are happening about this topic and if you say, well, no one’s talking about this topic, which is possible, who should be right?

It’s a harder push to introduce an entirely new topic rather than add a piece to an existing conversation. So having a situational awareness of what the conversation is, who are the leading voices? What are they saying? How does your voice differ from theirs? Are you duplicating what they’re saying? Are you speaking from a position of experience or expertise that they might not have, and understand those conversations and being willing to engage in them?

I think one of the things that we often do is we become very siloed, right? We’re aware of the conversations immediately around us. We rarely do a larger environmental scan. And miss people who not only would lean in to the idea but would help spread it. So that could mean if you’re a practicing provider who’s in the system, maybe as an executive or maybe in the nursing leadership who also shares similar values, or are there other people who are in different hospital systems or different health care systems that are in a similar situation to you that would benefit from the idea and also advocate for it?

So it depends on your scope, but these are deeply human skills and they require conversation, situational awareness, persistence. And also in the age we’re in now and going forward, we have to be aware that a lot of people are settling for an 80% answer, right?

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Oh, tell me more.

Bill Sherman:

Yes, I we go to Google and we get an online answer. And in most of the cases, an 80% answer is good enough. And we don’t poke deeper right. How do you signal relevance? How do you explain the stakes and the importance? Just say we can do better. Here’s the easier, faster, more reliable outcomes. Whatever. And how do you advocate for that idea so that you break through the noise that we’re all suffering from and willing to accept good enough from?

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love that concept. That 80% is good enough, but it’s and when trying to communicate really important ideas, 80% is not good enough.

Bill Sherman:

And percent is the competitor. Yeah, right. It’s the status quo that most people go okay, that’s best practices. That’s conventional wisdom. That’s, you know, our standard of care. All of those things don’t advance conversations. Yeah. And so you have to disrupt and say, well that was good enough last year. What about now? What about five years from now.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Yeah I kind of think if I would have. And if you give me an answer to something and I think, well, that’s what I would have said. You’re not moving the ball forward. Right. There has to be something, something ugly, some spice there. Well I would I would love to continue this conversation for another five hours and get into all the other kinds of thought leaders that are out there, all the other avatars.

But we’re running out of time. So, Bill, I like to ask the same question of all of my guests. On the podcast. We talk about design. Is there something that is so well designed in your life that it brings you joy and happiness whenever you interact with it?

Bill Sherman:

Yes. So there are a number of things. I have a friend and mentor of mine who lives by the following principle that everything is a design bubble surface. That means the envelopes that you send a copy of the book to, that means the space that you’re in. That means how you configure your email. Everything is designed either intentionally or less thoughtfully.

Yeah. So things that I love are the things that produce surprise and delight. Things that you hang on to even though you didn’t expect it. And you may hang on to it as a memory of an experience, or you may hang on to the tangible thing. I have things on my bookshelf behind me. Okay, that are pieces so your video watchers can see it.

Others can’t all describe it. So when I was five, I remember my father taking me to the park across the street and they had a kite flying competition. I was five. I didn’t know what was going on. My mother had gotten, I think, by saving ten labels, a Jolly Green Giant kite. Okay, it was two times bigger than I was. Okay, so imagine me flying this kite and, you know, being tiny, almost being pulled by it across the park.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Sure.

Bill Sherman:

Everybody was flying kites. I won a trophy at five years old for the largest kite in 1976. It’s a distinctive trophy with a kite tail that’s made out of copper and everything. And it’s wire done. Fragile as could be. This could have broken years ago, but someone made a custom And every time I see it, it reminds me of that day in the park.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love it so that that kite trophy from 1976. Correct?

Bill Sherman:

Yeah, and it’s. 50 years old and fragile as can be.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

Wow. All right, I love it. That’s that that is. And, you know, you wonder if the person that designed that in that prehistoric age. Just for the record, I was born in 2010. And so this is I don’t even understand what we’re really talking about. But did they know they had.

Bill Sherman:

Word for it. It was called Bicentennial.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I do remember that I guess I was alive, I guess I wasn’t alive. Yeah. It’s I, you know, it’s a it’s a wonder of someone who kind of put that together and created that would have thought that it would still be around at this.

Bill Sherman:

Point in Bicentennial, the town painted fire hydrants. Yeah. Our founding fathers and notable revolutionary figures in that. So the founders and framers were on, you know, fire hydrants. Yeah. Everything is a desirable surface.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

I love it, I love it. That’s great. All right. Well, Bill Sherman, thank you so much for kind of talking about your book that just came out. We will put a link to it in the show notes. Of course. It’s great for anyone who is interested in how ideas move and, and looking for tips and tricks and, platforms and concepts to get ideas out there.

Craig Joseph MD, FAAP, FAMIA:

So I’d, I’d highly recommend it. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you sir.

Bill Sherman:

Thank you Craig. Thanks for having me.

Outro:

Thanks for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. For more on Bill Sherman follow him on LinkedIn or at his website, aha dash moments.com

Check back for more episodes of Designing for Health wherever you listen to podcasts or on NordicGlobal.com. We’ll see you again next time on Designing for Health.

LinkedIn and other web links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-sherman-aha-moments/ 

https://thoughtleadershipleverage.com/ 

https://aha-moments.com/

https://thoughtleadershiphandbook.com/